Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 124
02/15/2006 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB300 | |
| HJR14 | |
| HB324 | |
| HCR29 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 300 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 324 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HJR 14 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HCR 29 | ||
HCR 29-PEBBLE COPPER DEPOSIT MANAGEMENT PLAN CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 29, Requesting the commissioner of natural resources to complete a management plan for the area encompassing the Pebble copper deposit and requesting a report to the legislature. BRUCE JENKINS, Chief Operating Officer, Northern Dynasty Mines, Inc, said there will be plenty of opportunity for the public process and a dialogue on the merits of the Pebble mine project, "and the risks and the benefits, and that now is not the time to do that." He gave the committee a letter that addresses some of the concerns he has about HCR 29, and he said it addresses what he sees as inflammatory comments from previous testimony. He said Northern Dynasty Mines is against the resolution because it provides the mechanism for changing the rules at the end of the permit process by reclassifying land-use that would prohibit mining. He said this concern has been validated by some testifiers "where is was clearly stated that the intention is to use this resolution as a mechanism to stop the pebble project." It would create uncertainty and deter the international investment community, and it would seriously undermine resource development and investments in Alaska, he concluded. 2:41:53 PM REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he is an ironworker and he likes jobs that require ironworkers and welders, and he supports development of Alaska's natural resources, "but I have a lot of trepidation here." He said the area is very sensitive, with millions of spawning salmon, and "there is a lot riding on what you are doing here." He said he wants Mr. Jenkins to know "how very much I want you to do this right." MR. JENKINS said his organization is committed to responsible mineral development and that is why he was asked to be the Chief Operating Officer. He has more than 30 years of experience in controversial resource development, and he has a master's degree in fisheries ecology. That should be "a signal that we take this very seriously," he stated. He said he knows of no other mining company that has a fisheries ecologist in his position with "more than 30 years of experience in applying that degree." He noted that his company recognizes the importance of water quality and preserving the fisheries resource. Contrary to testifiers, it is possible to have mine development and protect fish, he said, but there are horror stories in the mining industry in the last 50 years. "No industry has a perfect track record," he said, but the mining industry has modern techniques, modern processes, and a responsible approach to developing mines properly." He said Northern Dynasty has not even defined its project or applied for permits. Without that information, "a reasonable person would look for other precedents." He asked if there are other case studies. He said he is from British Columbia and he spoke of the Frasier River system. 2:45:56 PM MR. JENKINS said the Frasier River has the largest salmon populations in Canada. He said one of his sister companies operates a 70,000 ton a day open pit copper mine at Gibraltar, near Williams Lake. It has operated for 26 years, and Northern Dynasty purchased it four years ago. It is closer to the Frasier River than the proposed Pebble mine site would be to the main stem of Nushagak-Mulchatna River by a large margin, and the net impact on the Frasier River salmon and the price paid for them has been zero. Experience doesn't support many of the wild claims of mine impacts, he said, and he only asks for due process with science and facts before an independent adjudicating body. He said he hopes the company will be held as accountable as anyone else who comments on the project, "and that's not possible before the permitting process." 2:47:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said Mr. Jenkins has an impressive title, and he spoke of fishermen and the most valuable fisheries in the world, "and they don't want to see it jeopardized." He said it is difficult to tell fishermen that he has assurances from the C.E.O., who is "the one guy who stands to gain the most from this operation." He asked what would happen if an impact reached the fisheries. MR. JENKINS said he is not here to ask anyone to believe what he says because the facts have not been collected and the project has not been designed. He is not asking the committee to believe that the mine will have no impact, because the mine has not been designed. He said the company will do the best job with the best environmental and engineering team designing the project, and then present the project to the permitting process. Permits will take multiple years with hundreds of experts, and if the company can't convince people that the project is safe, "then we don't deserve to get a permit." We are willing and ready to spend the hundred-plus million dollars, and "we're in this for the long haul." The project won't get permits if the company fails the state and federal permitting process. 2:50:15 PM MR. JENKINS said there are similar mines in other jurisdictions that have the same water and fish concerns, "and mines have been developed safely there." He respects the concerns that have been raised and is factoring them into the project design. He said to bring concerns to the table during the permitting process, and the outcome will speak for itself. 2:51:05 PM REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked about an Securities and Exchange Commission statement that directors and officers would not be subject to United States courts. She asked if opponents had taken that out of context. MR. JENKINS said he "believes it has definitely been taken out of context because an erroneous spin has been put on that quotation to create the impression that Canadian executives and directors have a get-out-of-jail-free card. That is patently wrong in law and in practice." He said, "It is erroneous to infer from any peculiarity of a Securities disclosure the Northern Dynasty Mines is not subject to U.S. or Alaska law." He said British Columbia has provisions with the State of Alaska that allows for judgments to be made against British Columbia citizens. He said, "We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't," because his company follows the law and provides "these disclosures because we're required to by the Securities and Exchange Commission and then we get criticized for doing it." 2:52:49 PM REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX said that [quote] was about insider trading and derivative action suits, "and things of that nature as opposed to environmental catastrophe litigation. Wasn't it?" MR. JENKINS said it was. The assets of the Pebble mine reside in Alaska and are there to support any damages or claim, and the multi-billion dollars in the ground are assets. The bond and cash posted for reclamation will be in Alaska, he noted, "so there are lots of assets that reside in the state within the American subsidiary that are available to support any kind of a claim or action." 2:53:45 PM REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if it is true that the mine did not intend to use a chemical pollution mixing zone. MR. JENKINS said there is no simple answer. He said the current base case does not envision a surface water discharge. The project is not known, and the company has found a higher-grade deposit to the east at greater depth, and it is investigating underground mining techniques, and "whether that engineering effort will result in a change, I cannot predict." 2:55:00 PM CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked the harm in "just" a resolution. MR. JENKINS said DNR described how this unprecedented resolution would work, and he said he still didn't understand if the process would be parallel to the permitting process; how well it would work; and how long it would take. "So I don't share the same degree of confidence that it wouldn't impose delays and significant additional hurdles." The concerns are delays, risk of additional expense, and a lack of certainty. He said Northern Dynasty was invited into the state, and the land is state-owned and open to mining. The land-use plan confirmed that the land was zoned for mineral development, and "that provided us a high degree of certainty." He said the company knows what is involved in a permitting process, but this resolution provides a new threshold that creates uncertainty, "and that threshold is that the Department of Natural Resources commissioner has to take a report to the legislature at the end of this process and this expense and this time, and it provides an opportunity for the zoning to be changed and for the opportunity for the mine to be taken away, independent of what the permit review process says. That is a major threat." He said Northern Dynasty may have made a different conclusion on acquiring the property and spending $70 million. 2:58:19 PM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said we all wish there was certainty. He asked if the resolution sends a bad message to Wall Street, which raises the interest rate for borrowing money. 2:59:01 PM MR. JENKINS said he believes this resolution can be walked into investment houses in New York, Montreal, Montreal, London, Paris and Zurich-the sources of Northern Dynasty's finances-to present the case that Alaska is not open to the mining industry and is a bad place to invest. He said he is not suggesting he gets a risk-free situation; he is in the risk business and already has significant uncertainty. The resolution could be the straw that breaks the camel's back, he surmised. [HCR 29 was held over.]
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